Why is a woman’s value and worth attached to her virginity?
I was watching this movie, that’s based in a small village in Rajasthan. This village woman, who we shall call SD joined the local government project that raised awareness of child marriages (which still occur in some parts of the world today, despite being illegal and outlawed) and the practise of sati amongst other things. To cut a long story short, the henchmen of the village (tribal leaders) gang rape this woman for being “insolent” and defiant in her awareness campaign.
Despite the movie’s focus on Hindu women, unfortunately the practise of rape as a weapon, not only in war, but generlly against women isn’t restricted to any religion, culture or background.
Isn’t the focus a woman’s virginity- and its association with maintaining her and her families/tribes honour, reputation and the commanded respect they receive as a result, just waves the red flag for potential ways of “taking revenge” or as in the case above, to “teach her a lesson”?
Although in Islam there is an oft mentioned hadith where the Prophet (saw) advised an enquirer to have married a virgin woman as opposed to his choice of an older previously married woman.
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 16:
Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah:While we were returning from a Ghazwa (Holy Battle) with the Prophet, I started driving my camel fast, as it was a lazy camel A rider came behind me and pricked my camel with a spear he had with him, and then my camel started running as fast as the best camel you may see. Behold! The rider was the Prophet himself. He said, ‘What makes you in such a hurry?” I replied, I am newly married ” He said, “Did you marry a virgin or a matron? I replied, “A matron.” He said, “Why didn’t you marry a young girl so that you may play with her and she with you?”
However, the less mentioned second half of the story is narrated as follows:
Book 008, Number 3463:
…..He (the Holy Prophet) (in the course of journey said to me): Have you married? I said: Yes. He (again) said: Is it with a virgin or one previously married? I said. With one previously married, whereupon he (again) said: Why not with a young girl with whom you could sport and she could have sported with you? I said: I have sisters, so I preferred to marry a woman who could keep them together (as one family). who could comb them and look after them….
In the above instance, the man in question (Jabr bin Abdullah) chose an older woman as she suited him better owing to his circumstances. However, there is no hard and fast rule in marrying virgins only, so where people spout the message that virgins are better than non-virgins and the ground and pace at which such a view has gained popularity is unknown.
Virgins help in taking a trip down memory lane?>
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 3:
Narrated ‘Alqama:While I was with Abdullah, ‘Uthman met him at Mina and said, “O Abu ‘Abdur-Rahman ! I have something to say to you.” So both of them went aside and ‘Uthman said, “O Abu ‘Abdur-Rah. man! Shall we marry you to a virgin who will make you remember your past days?” When ‘Abdullah felt that he was not in need of that, he beckoned me (to join him) saying, “O ‘Alqama!” Then I heard him saying (in reply to ‘Uthman), “As you have said that, (I tell you that) the Prophet once said to us, ‘O young people! Whoever among you is able to marry, should marry, and whoever is not able to marry, is recommended to fast, as fasting diminishes his sexual power.
Does virginity then demonstrate some obscure link with immaturity? Or innocence? Pastures yet not ventured? Why are virgin women seen (in some cultures) to be more desirable than one who has lost her virginity (either through illegitimate relations – outside of a marriage bond- or through marriage and is now a widow or a divorcee)
I remember reading a hadith somewhere that the Prophet said marry virgins for they will be easier to please. So it’s like a non-virgin will already know tricks and stuff, will be able to compare if he is good or not in bed. But a virgin, well she’s inexperienced so she won’t know any better if he’s good at sex or not.
But how much of his performance in bed matter compared to other factors that lead to a good and successful marriage? Surely there are other things that should take precedence over whether the wifey will be taking notes and comparing? Isn’t there a tad too much emphasis on virginity per se?
Unique, i have not heard that hadith before, but the idea of being “easier to please”, does not necessarily relate to sex. Did the hadith specifically mention conjugal relations? When i read your sentence, the first thought that came to mind was “a virgin would have less expectations from her husband”. A woman who has been previously married, and may have been treated well, will want to be treated as well (if not better) in the next marriage. However, as no two men are alike, the treatment cannot be expected to be the same. It may be good in both cases, but in different ways.
When i look at the hadith like that, it makes more sense to me. Plus, do we know who he was talking to at the time? Maybe he was talking to young, inexperienced men, who would not be able to easily please (financially, and in other ways), a ‘mature’ woman.
P.S., the word ‘virgin’ in hadith relates to women who have been previously married, not just to women who have never had sex.
Correction, who have not been previously married!
iMuslim you’re right! I didn’t think of it that way. But you know Arab men were obsessed with sex (or so I read) so that’s why I assumed they were talking about that department!
you know Arab men were obsessed with sex
Err… Arab men? Are you sure you didn’t mean “ALL” men?
Btw, wrt the actual point raised by Sumera: i think rape in itself is the most heinous of crimes committed against women, or men. I’m sure i’ve said this in another blog: basically, it is worse than murder in my mind. And frankly, i don’t think it makes a blind bit of difference whether the victim is a virgin or not, it can still destroy him/her. Even prostitutes are raped. In fact, they are habitually raped, but no-one really cares: “they deserve it/ part of the job/ low-life scum” etc, so it doesn’t get reported. No wonder so many of them are druggies/alcoholics. You’d have to be to ‘survive’ on the street.
Thanks for writing about the topic, Sumera. I recently touched the subject on my Arabic blog.
http://masrygiddan.blogspot.com/2007/05/blog-post_03.html#comments
I am not sure where we got the idea that women get value from their virginity? Once the poor girl loses it, she is seen as “less” than a human, why?
Divorced/widowed women are seen as a prostitutes. They aren’t allowed to remarry, and if they are, they can marry grandpa Ahmed who is 60 years old with a good retirement plan.
On the other hand, the dear divorced/widowed/player brother can remarry as many virgin women as he likes. Even if he has kids. Because he is just forgiven like that. While, the god-fearing divorced/widowed sister is left with nothing.
How unfair is our society?
P.S. I’m positive I read that hadith somewhere in the stack of books I have…I hope if I find it I can share it here
testing.
I dont think virginity should be taken as an indicator of the level of expectations one might have. A divorcee may very well, due to her prior and previous experience, have LOWER expectations second time around, than a virgin who being new to it all may have a list as long as her arm. Some realistic, but some potentially whimsical.
Divorcee’s and widows on the whole, whether they have had sex (and so are no longer virgins) or not (marriage was never consummated) are treated like lepers. Very much like the points you raised Organic. Its almost as though any contact with a man (for arguments sake and to make this simpler!) as part of a legitimate relationship renders her as “marked”. Therefore having “belonged” to someone and now being “marked” (think of it as an invisible version of those hot iron stamps they use on farm animals – to mark ownership) they can’t possibly pick from the best of the crop, but have to settle for someone they otherwise would never in a million years have considered (Grandpa Ahmed for example! :p )
Divorced/widowed men certainly dont have the same level of stigma against them. They, relatively easily, can re-start another marriage chapter without many hiccups – even if he has children.
If people followed the simple criteria of looking for deen, wealth, beauty and lineage in a potential(in that order preferably – my preference) this obsession with virginity wouldn’t matter in the slightest.
Society is incredibly unfair Organic.
Oh and by the way Organic, some peoples posts end up in the spam filter, so thats why it didnt come up in my moderators panel!
But I ventured into the spam section and found it
Hopefully it’ll recognise you as a fellow blogger and not do it again – smacks spam filter on hand.
When you post links in a comment, it often ends up being selected by Askimet.
I do agree with you guys about society being very unfair to divorcees, especially women. I wanted to consider a divorcee once, but my dad would have none of it. I also know of a ‘virgin’ brother who wanted to marry a divorcee, but his parents wouldn’t allow it.
So do you think for ‘virgins’ like us, it is our parents/families that are placing the barrier, rather than the people who are actually getting married?
I think parents have a plethora of experience with these things, be it personally or through examples in the community. So when they do put up these barriers, they may have insight of the situation that could arise that perhaps we wouldn’t. Parental protection in overdrive sometimes :p
On the other hand, they may not consider divorcee’s because they are not the “same” as their son/daughter, having had the experience of a failed marriage (maybe they think they were the cause of the divorce – wasn’t a good partner. Very rarely are these people given benefit of the doubt). Most parents want someone who hasnt been married before for thier own children, because they believe they are better suited and have less baggage.
On the flip side, people who would consider divorcee’s or widows for marriage – may not mind about the individuals past marriage as he/she fulfills the things they want in a spouse. So in a way the barriers may very well be parentally instilled or community based rather than the boy/girl placing them.
Very interesting discussion as always Sumera. My question is, If Islam allowed polygamy and if all men are to marry virgins then who marries the widows and divorcees?
It’s interesting though, in ‘The Reliance of the Traveller’, a classical manual of Shafi’i fiqh, virginity is listed quite a way down the list of reasons to marry a woman.
My thoughts exactly Suroor. If men who opt for polygyny choose virgins as their first (if not only) preference, what about the divorcee’s and widows?
After all, polynygy is not designed only to help such women but is often sported to be a useful arrangement for such situations. Most men do not go into polygynous marriages purely to “help” the women who need it most.
Interesting Jamila, I never knew about that.
Hehe, iMuslim, I meant in the time of the Prophet he was dealing with mostly arabs right
Come to think of it…the virgin mary is one of the most highly praised women in the Qur’an, because she was pure and chaste…maybe that’s why nuns choose to follow her way, to remain virgins because it is something praised. So it’s not just in our muslim cultures, it’s expanding to christian ones too.
What do you think of that spontaneous thought?
I dun think in today’z world.. it really matterz..if someone iz virgin or not…..atleast not in people i sit with, guud or bad.. i dunno…but i think in many islamic societies this is a problem for women…and it certainly makes a secular society a much safer place for dem in terms of (rights/career/life) and i’ve seen young divorced ladies.. living a guud single life as dey prefer to be single rather den..hav ppl judge dem..in pak which iz guud thingy ….nd an honest observation….i think there are lesser virgins out there now..lol so wats the fuzz about..
i c our society become more secular day by day…i dunno if its gud or bad..but if it is somethin that kan help us get rid of stupid moral values dat hold in our society..im for it…nd i think i lost my track..sorry.. 
Regarding “marks of belonging” (a good point) Sumera, the wedding ring, nose pin and even bracelets are indeed seen as marks of branding. In South Asia particularly, a nose ring signifies virginity and a pin means that a woman is no more a virgin. Even now women in India and Pakistan wear a large nose ring on their wedding day which is taken off on the wedding night to indicate that the wedding has been consummated! From then onwards they only wear a pin.
Careful reading of the ahadith you have included in your post indicate very clearly that a virgin (although it refers to an unmarried woman in Arabic whether or not she has had sex) actually refers to a woman who has not had sex. If fornication and sex before marriage is haraam then an unmarried woman in the strict Islamic sense of the word especially in early Islam would refer to a woman who has not had sexual experience. This is one reason that some women who have had sex before marriage or were raped go for hymen reconstruction surgery.
Unique Muslimah, you brought up an interesting fact about Virgin Mary but I was wondering if the obsession with virginity is expanding to the Christians or has it come to Islam from Christianity?
“On the flip side, people who would consider divorcee’s or widows for marriage – may not mind about the individuals past marriage as he/she fulfills the things they want in a spouse”
i’m seeing this happening more and more often now, subhanAllah, in the next generation here, which has to be a positive thing. as imuslim said, it is often the parents that are reluctant, becuause they naturally want to “protect” their child, but i’ve found that if you stick at it, they are willing to see past the stigma attached to divorcees.
“Divorced/widowed women are seen as a prostitutes”
agian, i’d like to hope this is changing, but perhaps i’m being naive?? i know divorce is disliked, but it’s sad to see so many women staying in the most unhappy marriages just to avoid being perceived as the above.
you’ve depressed me now Sumera! but an interesting discussion. keep up the good work
The best hadith that is pretty general advice is one where the Prophet tells the men to choose a woman as a wife who would be a good mother to his kids.
All these other virgin/”there is something in the eyes of the Ansar” blah blah blah are case-specific.
Unique: Nuns remain celibate and so do Priests. So for them virginity is seen as something valuable I suppose and they emulate Jesus (and Mary) by preserving themselves I guess. I’ve never looked into this bit of Christianity.
Faraz: Most of the divorcee’s I know, particularly those with children, opt to remain single mothers than marry again. Part of that is due to not being able to have decent proposals and the other is not wanting to ruin their own r’ship with their children by possible ill treatment by the husband
Suroor: Is that the reason behind the nose ring? I wasn’t aware of that. But if virginity wasn’t as scrutinised as it is, there wouldnt be this need to dupe by opting for hymen surgery. Some people “examine” the marital bed after the first night and use it as “proof” of her virginity (by looking for blood). Thats gross.
Hema: Didnt mean to depress you honey!
but absolutely it is best to divorce than stay in an unhappy marriage. Compromising in no shape or form means ruining your own health; physical, emotional and mental health.
There is a move towards looking past virginity, but in some cultures the grip on it remains as firm as ever.
virgin women are certainly valuable – they’re not ‘used goods’ or ‘second-hand’ or ‘soiled’ by some other man -basically. isn’t it all about man’s competitive spirit?
i don’t think this hadith is very ‘seemly’ somehow – surely it is not polite at all to suggest that someone’s conjugal relations are upto scratch! And why would anyone assume ( never mind a Prophet) that a young girl can sport better than a grown experienced woman? given how young girls were married in those times..
i mean ‘that someone’s conjugal relations are not upto scratch!’
Plus doesn’t it strike anyone else that it is a strange thing to say if you had been married to a woman older than you – monogamously as well – for a long time? Unless of course the implication is that it is through that experience the preference for younger women comes about. Which might sound a bit disrespectful to the memory of Khadija – it seems – somewhat. And we know from other sources that the Prophet spoke very lovingly of her, etc. etc.and praised her.
nuns and monks adhere to the puritannical view that bodily desires take you away from more spiritual pursuits which is of course situated in the wider normative assumption that sex is sinful.
of course the wider issue is that men seem to feel threatened by female sexuality! as far as my cynical mind can see – this explains a LOT when you think about islamic jurisprudence.
I think perhaps the recommendation of marrying a young girl was probably made to those who themselves either werent too mature themselves or were mature. So to balance it off and lower possibility of discord and encourage harmony between them, may have adviced the person accordingly.
“My question is, If Islam allowed polygamy and if all men are to marry virgins then who marries the widows and divorcees?”
The thing is, Islam *doesn’t* just say to marry virgins… it does seem preferable, but the Prophet (SAW) himself married mostly widows and divorcees! How many of his wives were actually virgins when he married them? Only Aishah (ra), I believe…
The truth is that our society is deeply patriarchal and men know how to squeeze anything they really desire out of Islam. Try telling any ordinary Muslim man to marry a woman older than him and someone who is not a virgin. Every man desires a virgin woman much younger and thereby malleable. Of course, it helps when there are some hadith on hand to quote from because that becomes a more reliable sunnah than what the Prophet (pbuh) actually practiced himself.
However, what really gets my goat is that even with a pretty, young and virgin wife, some men are not satisfied. That is where I take up arms.
Was watching this old movie where the father in law was telling his daughter in law how a man’s heart has so much love to give that he needs another woman(ya right!),this was after the DIL complained about her husband.
I know that some countries like U.A.E, give men some $$$if they marry older/divorced women(?)
@ Suroor – I guess that’s true… which sucks… but that’s where we have to start taking action, right? ‘Cuz mothers and fathers should be teaching their sons (and daughters, too!) not to be so shallow when it comes to choosing a spouse – i.e. don’t concentrate so much on beauty, or youth, or wealth…
Anyway, I just thought of something else – what about those married women who are made to feel ‘less’ because they don’t have kids (or more specifically, because they don’t have sons)? Although, this probably HAS been talked about before… I must’ve missed it, though…