Archbishop’s Comment on Islamic Law Implementation Ruckus
February 8, 2008 at 7:23 pm | In Future, Islam, Life, Muslims, Non-Muslim, Society | 16 CommentsWhat was meant to be an academic speech (transcript here), designed to encourage interfaith dialogue has had a remarkable spin into the Archbishop being a “sook” as Scots would say and failing to uphold the principles of the Church of England by approving Shariah to be implemented in Britain for Muslims. What fails to be mentioned is that some aspects of the law have been adjusted to accomodate Muslim citizens such as some finance laws, and taxes like the stamp duty is only payable once for those who take out halal mortgages although due to the nature of the transaction they would be liable to pay it twice.
In addition Orthodox Jews notably have their own Rabbi courts (Beth Din) in the UK which deal with their own matters, usually pertaining to diet, marriage and finance – the decisions of which are recognised should state intervention be lacking in adhering to their needs in accordance to their beliefs. Besides in any situation of there being problems in resolving issues within these court systems the state can intervene as the systems are complementary, they are not in opposition to one another. Which makes one wonder why introducing a similar system for Muslims, not non-Muslims and for those who want it and presumably will use it, is causing such a ruckus. There is of course enough recourse within British (English and Scottish law differ in some respect) law to be able to take legal avenues that accomodate beliefs but some feel in some area’s this is not always the case, which is where specialised arrangements are needed.
Theres been a lot of coverage on this. Below are some of the links
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Oops! Looks like archbishop made a big boo-boo over which he’s going to be in thick soup!
Comment by Achelois — February 8, 2008 #
Interesting. I winder to know “who” want to define these islamic laws. Muslims or non-muslims finally?
Comment by Shahrzad — February 8, 2008 #
i wonder*
Comment by Shahrzad — February 8, 2008 #
Re: Beth Din – their laws are not as unequal in terms of male-female rights as Shariah laws, and even so, the correct way to fix secular laws is to remove all such special religious privileges (so remove Beth Din), not introduce more religious stuff in. Next thing you know, Sikhs and Hindus and Pastafarians and Jains would want their own laws. And each atheist would want their own personal law based on his or her nonbelief. That’s anarchy.
And re: Muslims want it – do the muslim women really “want” it, or is it that they’ll be coerced by society to go along with the shariah rulings, otherwise risk being a social pariah in their muslim communities. Its not an “option” for those women who live under strict family structures and pressures.
No – we’ve seen shariah fail utterly in several countries all over Africa and the middle east, and there is simply no way it could be implemented while making sure that it won’t be abused to disabuse women of their equal rights.
Comment by B — February 8, 2008 #
As far as I’m aware British Law is based loosely on Judae-Christain principles. By that standard alone isn’t it omitting taking into account “minority” beliefs?
The real issue with Archbishops comment is that despite contesting to being a Christain country, some people don’t actually want religion anywhere near state law and vehemently call for a completely secular state, which as long as the C of E has a presence and influence over Parliament is never going to be the case.
Comment by Sumera — February 8, 2008 #
I think when people hear ‘Shariah’ all they see is images of Taliban beating the hell out of some burqa clad women- who is most probably some Western Journalist. However, more and more poeple are now beginning to understand the importance of certain laws governing the private lives relating to contracts in Islam need to be governed by it. I agree with Sumera, we already have marriages and divorce law, we have the whole halal finance and so what if all that gets state recognition?
The Shariah courts in UK would def hit off with rape victims… providing me and Sumera are the judges charging rapists under hirbaha and Jirrah. Chances of which are same as me and Sumera becoming shariah court judges :p
Comment by Tia — February 8, 2008 #
The Media are demonising it. Just look at the news, listen to the radio. From what i heard Radio 1 listeners to say on a talkshow, the vast majority of non muslim Uk citizens think this is some kind of prelude to bringing in sharia law like cutting off the thieves hand and stoning the adulterer. So ordinary Mr and Mrs Jones is thinking of scenarios of what they see as barbaric and oppressive to women islamic laws being brought in! Nightmare scenario!
So everybody is up in arms against it like, the government and senior political figures in the political world. One thing is sure it will get shot down by the media and other determining groups in society.
When all the archbishop was trying to do was to open up a debate and see if the British legal system could be more efficient by them inculcating some islamic law so muslims could be better served when it came to things like family law and marriage. Which is a good thing in my opinion. We have jewish courts so why shouldnt we have muslim courts? Kudos to the archbishop for bringing it up and opening the debate. He is a man who thinks for himself, he does’nt get swayed by majority opinion or what is seen to be ‘right’ or ‘correct’, which is good for him. Respect to him.
Comment by Abdul. — February 8, 2008 #
lol Tia :p
The media reaction is typical of the trashy Sun readers this nations is made up of.
Comment by Sumera — February 8, 2008 #
Unfortunately in this time of soundbites and one liners the thoughtful position outlined by the Archibishop is not going to fly – most people who are criticizing him has not even looked into his statement or studied it in any great detail. I now worry about how this will impact his future behavior.
Comment by Haleem — February 9, 2008 #
My biggest worry is what if someone takes the archbishop seriously and tries to implement shariah law in Britain. Is there any Muslim capable enough in Britain to apply ‘correct’ shariah law which is beneficial to Muslims? I don’t know and I may be wrong.
I have lived several years of my adult life in four different Muslim countries where shariah law is applied and I can honestly say that I have not been always impressed. Ultimately tribal law succeeds shariah in these lands and the result is a chaotic legal system which is sometimes also misogynistic.
Comment by Achelois — February 9, 2008 #
The issue isn’t to do with introducing the topic for a debate:
” Only Hizb ut-Tahrir has been fully supportive of Williams’s attempt to introduce debate on the topic. “To seek to organise marriages and divorce, inheritance, food regulations and personal financial arrangements within our community is not a campaign for the establishment of sharia. It is to live our lives according to Islam, in a personal space.”
but if it is going to be introduced and recognised by British law how would that happen to ensure its fair and everyone has equal access to it? Despite it being informally in place and some people are currently accessing these services, to formalise it may take some of the workload off the British courts and over to these Islamic courts but (i’m assuming) to make it inline with aspects of British law and rulings would require some elbow grease of the brain cells and communication across the various communities and leaders. Who is prepared to do that? How would it go about? Would mere people in communities, religious peers or even the ordinary public be able to elect who sits on the Shariah Council? Who would these shaykhs, shaykha’s be accountable to? At the moment I don’t think they are accountable to anyone but operate a peer-support system. A lot to go through and sort out before implementation before the law.
Another issue is as you rightly pointed out Achelois, your very point was made in an article today:
“The Muslim Public Affairs Committee said: “How many Muslim countries actually operate a proper system of sharia law? How can we expect a non-Muslim country to do something Muslim countries have not managed to? There are more pressing issues facing Britain’s Muslims. Tabloid editors and archbishops take note.”
Snippets taken from here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,2255030,00.html
That is always a worry, so I share and respect your opinion Achelois.
Comment by Sumera — February 9, 2008 #
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I would like to make two additional comments to this discussion.
Firstly, Muslims are often accused of being ready to explode at the very point Islam is questioned, or its Faith, laws etc. Muslims exploded at the speech made by the Pope with some cursory remark referring to Islam using quote from a century old crusader. There have been many debates about how Muslims are too easily offended and angered. The question now is though, is it only Musilms who are offended easily? Dr William Rowan’s speech where he simply suggested the idea of introducing shariah laws to work alongside the existing judiciary to accomodate Muslims wasn’t taken lightly at all. The media has been sensationalising it and the response has been totally uncalled for.. for example, BBC alone received over 1000 angry comments within 24 hrs of reporting it. So it is not only Muslims who are easily offended, even the so called rational westerners are easily offended when their very laws are being commented upon by one of their own.
Secondly, the implementation of Shariah in Britain is a chimera. But what we are talking about here is in spheres of personal law which should have absolutely no impact on society at all. Most Muslim countries despite the secularisation, certain areas are still governed according to shariah, such as marriages, divorce and so on. There are already shariah courts and mosques who deal with marriages and divorces but without State recognition there is no set procedure to organise this.
Also there are reports suggesting that Islamic banking can withstand recessions and economic disaster currently faced by the US. Furthermore, Islamic products are already the most talked about thing in UK financial sector. I work in the Financial sector and it is normal for me to share lift with directors coming straight out of the conference room holding big black folders labelled ‘Madharabah’, ‘Mushtarika’ and so on…. words which they probably can’t even pronounce. In fact, there is a conference being organised in UK to promote Islamic bonds and other financial products (which have a big question mark…if they are even islamic) fully supported by Mr Brown because there is a lot of money in the Golf which they want their hands on to aid the idea of turning UK into financial capital of the world.
So whether people like it or not, the Shariah in its partial format is being introduced anyway, but will it ever be implemented alongside the British judiciary? even the idea of it is a big drama. The real issue here is that Britain is about to face economic recessions and this type of attack on Muslims will serve as a long term distraction.
Comment by Tia — February 9, 2008 #
I heard about this soon to occur recession just the other day by way of an article- some people are quite looking forward to it! (don’t ask me why…long story :p )
Comment by Sumera — February 9, 2008 #
The way it looks now (from what i seen on the News at Ten) rowan wiliams is going to resign! Its looking very likely……his under a lot of pressure to resign anyway from members of the Church Synod and the Old Archbishop of Canterbury!
This just goes to show what the indigenous brits think of US(muslims). Dont be in any doubt or under any false illusion that they see you as ‘ordinary’ and no different to them. They might be all polite and courteous and fair to your face. But dont be in any doubt, if they know you are a muslim they see you as the ENEMY!
Comment by Abdul. — February 9, 2008 #
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