Mosque and Women: Serial Talking
October 21, 2008 at 8:52 pm | In Drama, Future, Gender Issues, Islam, Learning, Life, Men, Muslims, Personal, Ramadhan, Society, Women | 23 Comments
From personal observations around the time I decided to pop to the mosque during Ramadhan, there was a very interesting phenomenon amongst the women attendee’s.
As soon as the tarawih was over and everything else, the Imam (who was in the adjacent room-so could only be heard and not seen) would begin to speak about a particular topic, or narrate an incident (so we could all derive some moral guidance from, naturally, otherwise whats the point? Aside from putting the congregation to sleep) most of the women would start nattering amongst themselves.
I am not too aware whether the same occurs for the men, but since the men’s prayer hall was adjacent to the women’s prayer hall any noise (such as talking) would be obvious. And my brothers would complain about it but they havent. Maybe because they disappear outside as soon as they can. But as far as noise in the mens prayer hall goes, aside from shuffling of jackets or men hanging outside of the hall door having a good old natter or the odd mobile phones going off there wasn’t much.
But over at the women’s side – whoa, it was a proper melee! The women were sitting in their own wee huddles, nattering away about everything and anything. The children were making music of their own in their wee corners. And it made me wonder why this was the case?
If the Imam was in sight, would these women sit and talk as they were? Most probably not. They’d even tell their children off for making a racket (despite it being expected from them as they are kids after all, but definitely not from grown adult women!). It’d be incredibly insolent of anyone to continue a conversation with your peer(s) in full knowledge of the speaker (Imam or other) being able to see you and possibly reprimanding you (tut tut, you naughty women!)
I would MUCH prefer to be able to SEE the speaker when he is speaking rather than have audio projected into a room. The voice which fills the room acts like background noise and when there isn’t any chance you can offend the speaker (since he can’t see you anyway) by actively tuning out, then talking over him isn’t given a second thought. Ruining the speech/talk for other members of the congregation? Like that matters! And what happens if you want to ask the Imam something? Pass it via a brother who if he feels like it may ask the Imam or otherwise try to nab the Imam yourself when he isnt sleeping or eating halwa. Which is rare.
On the topic of speaker, if you do happen to be in the same room, then to be able to SEE the speaker helps a lot. Having designated seating for women at the back of the hall, where everybody infront resembles ants, or the only view is the back of peoples heads does nothing for me. On top of which, from such an angle the speaker looks like a fat blur distracts and causes my concentration and attention span to dwindle and deteriorate fast. Yes I used to sit near the front of the lecture hall at Uni for exactly the same reasons.
Are mosques, and MSA’s going to change things around so women have a clear and equal view of the speaker? Or are we to be relegated to spots where a pair of binocular’s and/or a good pair of ears are required?
I might need to invest in binoculars I guess
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You know, I think I agree with you on this one. There is a clear narration about women and their preferred positioning in the jama’ah of prayer, but I am not sure why this should also apply to khutbahs, and general speeches?
I don’t mind segregated seating, where women sit on one side, and men on the other… use a curtain if you must; but for all the reasons you have outlined above, I think it is necessary for women to be able to clearly see the imam, and the imam to clearly see them. Else there is very little benefit of them being there at all!
Wa Allahu ‘alam.
Comment by iMuslim — October 21, 2008 #
Btw, how can a post titled “How to make hacking sexy ?” be at all related to this one?!
Comment by iMuslim — October 21, 2008 #
I agree. Perhaps this is a classic case of “out of sight, out of mind.”?
Comment by jahandost — October 21, 2008 #
The mosque I attend is pretty liberal. The women and men are separated by glass doors and a middle wall which used to be a chimney. So you have the choice to sit near the glass doors or behind the wall. I personally sit behind the glass doors so I can see the Imam.
Sadly, women are disrespectful, they talk, talk and talk.
Comment by Organica — October 22, 2008 #
[...] Reflections Transcribed writes about a consequence of segregation and audio/video feeds to the women’s area of masajid: But over at the [...]
Pingback by Talking in the masjid - Women — October 22, 2008 #
whether the imam can be seen or not doesn’t really matter, theres nothing that can stop women going yippety yipetty yap!
Comment by farooqk — October 22, 2008 #
At least you people are allowed into the mosque; here in Pakistan, this Ramadan, one of the local mosques banned the women from joining them for taraweeh because ‘they talk to much’ I mean, *I* don’t. Except on the net.
How about passing out binoculars in plain sight of the Imam; maybe he’ll get the message?
You’re totally right here; its impossible to concentrate if you can’t see the person who is talking.
Comment by Specs — October 22, 2008 #
*…’talk too much,’ i meant. Typo.
Comment by Specs — October 22, 2008 #
I think women also are guilty in this case too. Most of them prefer this way, so they can easily talk together and gossip.
When they never stop talking in masjid, they’re not going to be taken seriously too..
Comment by Shahrzad — October 22, 2008 #
Men should keep the kids too. They make too much noise. If women wantto talk they can sit at home and chat on the phone. Masjid is to pray. But if I can’t see the imam I WILL protest.
Comment by Achelois — October 22, 2008 #
I think part of the blame lies with women too, especially in desiland. Tell them you want them to sit in the same hall as men (at the back, mind you, with kids in the middle and men in front) and they will have a heart attack.
“But, no, how?”
Comment by Mezba — October 22, 2008 #
We used to have a big problem with sisters talking during the khutbah or any announcements, etc. But recently the masjid has expanded to offer a new womens’ prayer hall upstairs. There is a fully functioning sound system and a large tv screen showing the imam. Some sisters still talk–youth and elderly mostly. But I think it’s slightly better than when women were in the same room so far behind the men they did nor have a view of the imam.
Comment by Amy — October 22, 2008 #
I think its a *common* thing that happens at the masjids. I don’t go to any except for eid (which is done at big halls to accomodate many pple). I remember someone once said that she wrote a note to the imam asking a question and the imam chose not to answer it but said that women are asking *too many silly questions*. LOL. No wonder many women don’t attend prayers at the masjids.
Comment by sf — October 22, 2008 #
lol I think it would be so much better if we have the men in the front and woman in the back . People would be more respectful also that was how it was done in the sunnah .
Comment by Smiley Amal ! — October 22, 2008 #
Women are fitnah!! Yeh i know some of you women are not just there to yap, but whichever way you look at it Sumera your never going to see a day when the women can see the Imaam and ask him questions directly, mark my words, the women might have good intentions, but the imaam might not have! lol. You put women in front of a imaam and sooner or later his gonna start gazing into some womens eyes. Like it or lump it thats just the way it is! Women may be able to control themselves but men cant! They just got a one track mind and they go ga ga at the sight of a good looking women. I mean its pathetic really that women cant even be in sight of the Imaam when all they want to do is just learn their deen!
I dont know thats just the way i feel, maybe wrong or right.
Comment by Abdul. — October 24, 2008 #
In few mosques here women can see the Imam ( whether they want to or not is another topic
).
At one mosque they sit side by side with men …men on left and women on right….advantage – Imams ( generally young ) dress up nicely
.
Comment by Zios — October 24, 2008 #
and no boys are generally much behaved…lol
Comment by Tauqeer — October 25, 2008 #
Note: in many masjids here in the land of America, the Imam is in full view of the women, and they still talk. Alot. And Loud. Also, I would like you to note that for some reason I decided to read this blog-post through a British accent, and it came out quite differently.
Comment by sophister — October 27, 2008 #
I think it comes down to several things, including women’s self-discipline and the effectiveness of the speaker.
At our masjid, the women actually have a separate building right next door to the main masjid (both are houses that were bought, w/ the men’s section being a proper masjid and the women’s section being a musallah); however, there is usually NO TALKING at all during the khutbah, weekly halaqah, and even taraweeh.
Which I think is pretty cool
Comment by AnonyMouse — October 28, 2008 #
iMuslim: I agree, whats the point in going to a lecture/talk if all you get is a voice? You can stay home and listen to CDs
Jahandost: Seems like it. Sadly
Organica: Why are women like that? I don’t understand it
Farooqk: Thanks for your comment. That seems to be the popular opinion at the moment!
Specs: They banned the women from attending Masjid? lol Thats the cherry on the cake :p
Shahrzad: Agreed. Some women should impose self discipline
Achelois: Some men do keep the kids. Its rare though. Ive stopped going to the mosque as being holed up in a room full of nattering women does nothing for me.
Mezba: Thats pardah for you
Amy: Seems to be a good solution given the situation. Sometimes separate halls have their functions
sf: How patronising! “Silly questions”!
Amal: Then they’re too busy worried about the fitnaah that women breathing in the same room bring!
Abdul: The Imam is meant to be the leader of the congregation, those who follow him in prayer. He should be aware of the responsibility and maturity which that includes. If he begins to get flustered due to the presence of some members of the congregation (females) then perhaps he should re-evaluate why he is leading.
Zios: Sounds like a good set up. Smartly dressed Imams are a plus point
Tauqeer: They’d have to be if they knew they’d get smacked :p
Sophister: Sad reality. Nice to know you keep yourself amused through employing accents :p
Anonymuouse: Either the speaker is entertaining or the women know they arent there to gossip eh!
Comment by Sumera — October 31, 2008 #
I totally agree with you. such behavior would also made me feel uncomfortable. Mosque is a place of prayer and tranquility not chit-chats. then again, it is our nature to talk lot hehehe
hugs
Amina
Comment by Amina — November 3, 2008 #
Honestly, I get annoyed when I find women having idle chit-chats in mosques especially when they are trying to sound off as if they are sharing the info with everyone. Nowadays, I frequent another mosque where women can be seen sleeping in it. ~sigh.
Comment by Hajar Alwi — December 16, 2008 #
Women should pray at home and keep out of mosques.
Comment by Arshad — March 26, 2009 #