Should Neither Be Seen Nor Heard… « Inner Reflections Transcribed

Should Neither Be Seen Nor Heard…

May 6, 2009 at 8:55 pm | In Culture, Discursive, Gender Issues, Islam, Men, Muslims, Patriarchy, Women | 41 Comments

…at least children are told they should be seen but not heard. Women it turns out should completely render their existence obsolete. As quietly as possible please, phase yourselves out, as not to disturb the sentiments of the menfolk who lose all sense at the sheer sight of our bony hands and round faces as per hijaab rules. Or eyes if you are privy to niqaab.

It irks me to find time and time again certain attitudes from Muslim women regarding how the Muslim sisterhood should behave, what characteristics they should have and ultimately what their role in the grand scheme of life should be. Please let me explain in more detail:

Women should try their utmost to not be appealing to men. This includes wearing “colours which do not attract attention” in other words black, to fit the appearance of a crow as per this hadith:

Abu Dawood (4101) narrated that Umm Salamah said: “When the words ‘and to draw their veils all over Juyoobihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms)’ [al-Noor 24:31 – interpretation of the meaning] were revealed, the women of the Ansaar went out looking as if there were crows on their heads because of their garments.” Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.(Source)

They should not “invoke desires in men” by means of their garb, and their scent – so perfumes are out and BO is in:

‘Unadorned’ means not wearing perfume… they are commanded to go out like this and are forbidden to wear perfume lest they provoke men’s desires with their perfume. That also includes other things which are forbidden because they provoke desire, such as beautiful clothing and visible and expensive adornment. (Source)

Women should not make any noise whilst out in pubic, so tinkling jewellery, clicking shoes, jingling keys – all avenues to Hell.

She should not raise her voice, if possible she should not speak at all since a man may become aroused on hearing such a sweet murmur. Is a woman’s voice awrah or not? After all Aisha (ra) spoke to the men who came and visited her (from behind a curtain) with a finger in her mouth to distort her voice. But we are not subject to the same rulings as the Prophets (saw) wives were. Emulating them in character is one thing, but to effectively live life as they did along with the limitations and special injunctions they had is not a requirement nor a necessity for Muslim women. Having the opinion that a woman’s voice is awrah effectively makes her become mute, as all of her is awrah. But, on the flip side, it is said of course she can talk, but to do so firmly – no pleasantries; just in, command, purchase/enquire and out. So a “thank you” and a “have a good day” have no place in this fitnatastic world.

Something strange (which I found strange anyway) I wish to share with you all. A few weeks ago, I attended what can only be described as a small mendhi/henna function for the neighbours son. It didn’t even feel like a mendhi, I didnt think they’d have one what with being of a certain religious persuasion and so not of the singing kind (women singing out loud in the house? The shame of it all!) but anyway that’s a different topic altogether. What I want to bring to your attention is this:

We were sitting there, munching away as you do. And the doorbell goes, someone goes to answer it as is the norm. This girl (who is related to the chap somehow or other) runs into the room having answered the door exclaiming “Its a MAN” ~shock horror~ A man? A member of that species? Oh dear God. I had about to hide my expression behind my plate as to not give away the look which was forming on my face. It was a cross between “how pathetic” and “oh for God sake, what stupidity, are all women down in this part of the UK inherently man-a-phobic?” I have come across this “Its a man” phenomenon usually amongst women who wear hijab (strictly) whenever there is an impending threat of a man about to enter the room or simply waft across anywhere near where the women may be. “Its a man” usually indicates to take cover under your hijabs should you have decided to remove them in the first place.

If its not man-a-phobia then it is giving preferential treatment to the men:

The men will eat first, the women later even if there is ample room for them all to sit together to eat. Months ago, during my newly wedded days, I was asked by an extended family member if this type of gatherinbg was the same in my family I replied “no, we – the men and women- sit together and eat” – the response to that? “Oh we can eat how much we want this way, stuff ourselves silly w/o the men watching! hahahahah” – I think there was meant to be humour in there somewhere….
The men will get the roomiest of places to sit in even if they amount to a grand total of 5 people and the women nearing 20, including the children who harbour the kitchen or a small room off the kitchen.
The men when together expect their women to not be seen nor heard. God forbid other men catch on there are women in the house. The women are just there to churn out the tea and biscuits. And cook of course. Their existence amounts to little else but to serve men as he is their gateway to Hell and Heaven.
Women don’t have an opinion on anything. Even if they do, don’t voice it – it’s not very womanly to debate and go against the decision of the man

Children get the better end of the deal than women do it seems.

41 Comments »

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I happened to wander over to your blog, and I’m glad I did. This entry was very thought-provoking… you raised some serious questions while being descriptive about what is expected of Muslim women. I am not very educated on the norms of Muslim women in the UK region, but I was under the impression that they were more apt to indulge in free talk and free attire. Perhaps my impression was false? Or it would depend on the different circles within the UK?

Either way, your entry definitely had quite a punch to it… especially the last line. Very well written!

Comment by Sindhu — May 6, 2009 #

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- Hi Sindhu, thanks for your comment. Majority of the Muslim women here are generally indulgent when it comes to attire and talk and opportunities such as work/career – but there are usually other factors and variables which are taken into consideration, one of which includes cultural norms, customs and traditions. Some more culturally adhered to by some than others. But there is always something which needs to give way in order to accomodate others, some people whom by default end up with more of an influence on how your life runs than you had thought otherwise. There are certain “roles” that women “need” to play, otherwise they are deemed to be too “Westernised”
  
  Between a rock and a hard place at the best of times.
  
  Comment by Sumera — May 8, 2009 #
  
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  - I think that description – between a rock and a hard place – seems very fitting for this situation.
    
    Hey, would you mind if I added you to my blogroll?
    
    Comment by Sindhu — May 12, 2009 #
Very well written, it seems us women are held up to a different standard than the men folks, i remember a guy once complaining that i had no hijab on.i was decently clothed but the fact that my hair was uncovered made me a bad muslimah.ooh i forgot to mention that this guy in question owns a liquor store.

Comment by zahra — May 8, 2009 #

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- Most women are held up to the “pure, holier than holy water” standard stick of measure zahra. As if they are representatives of everyone who shares the xx chromosome.
  
  Comment by Sumera — May 8, 2009 #
  
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- i know wat u mean. i am a hijabi myself but i meet a lot of people who are doing pretty much everything haram and still tend to point a finger on me because i dont wear black all the time or because i talk to men. its quite disgusting because if there’s someone who’s trying to do something should be encouraged. Instead most people would just would want to see you either partying the whole night, drinking and sleeping around or be the complete opposite and become a sufi.
  
  Comment by Leena S. — May 13, 2009 #
  
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“fitnatastic world” – I LOVE that description.

I am reading on the history of Islam these days for which I had to do an awful lot of research for many years, and it seems Sumera, that today we don’t follow Islam like it was centuries ago. I mean not at all. What you describe here makes me so angry because while we, the women, are expected to behave like this, this is not how women acted in early Islam.

I was just skimming through the book ‘100 fabricated hadith’ and it is amusing how even some great-sounding ahadith are fabricated, so just think about the ahadith that sound odd to us and contradict the character of the Last Prophet! What have we done! People have ruined and continue to ruin the true spirit of Islam.

This requirement of funny behaviour from women is nothing but the working of male minds several years after the prophet’s death. They hijacked religion to incarcerate women. And sadly women are stupid enough not to know the truth.

Aisha used to talk with a finger in her mouth to distort her voice! Ya Allah!

I love that picture you used, btw. Says so much. And your writing is always so thought-provoking. So, btw, when there is a man at your door do you not scream from horror? Oh why not? *looks at you intriguingly*

Comment by Achelois — May 8, 2009 #

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- Theres a lot Achelois that we do now, which wasn’t done in Islam. I often read certain hadith’s or various descriptions nof incidents and it seems that the women were very forthright, almost with an attitude! Culturally we are taught meek and submissive is best, as life is less complicated if you just nod and stare at the floor all the time.
  
  I understand how some women just follow the crowd like sheep and don’t question things, but for the one’s who do – they don’t bother to make changes but simply “give in”. That is something I don’t understand. I have a personal irk with the application of pardah (literal separation), and its not something I actively practise. I dont run at the sight of a man! I answer the door when the doorbell goes – without hesitation! Oh my, I must be so forward….Infact I find it quite rude when some men, despite seeing me there, pretend as if I don’t exist and carry on chatting with the other men. Not even a salaam! It’s deplorable. I refuse to be sidelined and shoved in the background because they think thats where I should be.
  
  Comment by Sumera — May 8, 2009 #
  
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[...] My soul-sister Sumera’s blog Should Neither Be Seen Nor Heard… [...]

Pingback by Women! « Achelois: a retired goddess — May 8, 2009 #

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Haha, that pingback reads funny – ‘My soul-sister Sumera’s blog Should Neither Be Seen Nor Heard’ – that was Satan’s doing

Forgot to mention, just yesterday I was remembering how my SIL told me off once because I was ‘locked up’ in her room on Eid and decided to send her 12 year old to bring my baby to me from the men’s. All the men were the girl’s uncles but my SIL looked at me and said sternly, “Don’t send her to the men’s area. I don’t like them looking at my girl. Don’t you have any shame?” So I got up, walked out and brought the baby from my husband who was sitting with 10 other men that looked petrified at the sight of me walking into their territory, unarmed and unannounced!

Comment by Achelois — May 8, 2009 #

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- Oh! Doesnt the girl have the right to know her uncles? “looking at my girl”? I suppose she assumed they’d gawp at her with perverted intentions – now doesnt that speak volumes about where her line of thought comes from? Why is everything sexualised?
  
  Achelois: The Unarmed Momma
  
  Comment by Sumera — May 8, 2009 #
  
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RUN… “Its a Man”!!!

Ok I should nt be commenting on this post… But actually I agree with this post (to some extent… but that would go off topic). The thing is I m from a conservative (very) family, and I hate this runaway attitude in the family! And its not just the fault of “menfolk” (although it kinda is… ) but women dont want to change either!

It seems as if in our society, the only person a man and a woman can have especially when in a “together” context is to get “married”, have children (lots of them), raise em up and start the whole cycle all over again. It is sad and it kinda reminds me of a song (Unforgiven by Metallica) .

Oh and Hell would probably freeze over and the sky would fall off if a woman (or even a man) thinks of breaking the cycle and wander off into the blue yonder!

And what really ticks me off is when people attribute this to Islam.

I thought the point of having a religion and all was to find a way to co exist, was it not? Or are we missing some very crucial point in all this?

Hey sorry I have nt been around much lately, thanks for dropping by!

Comment by safiullahhussaini — May 8, 2009 #

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- I believe it stems from a supposed understanding that men and women having contact with each other has sexual undertones to it. Co-existence is merely a desired concept, in practise its all very much an apartheid Safi.
  
  Comment by Sumera — May 8, 2009 #
  
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  - Oh I agree… But what is wrong with it having sexual undertones?! As long as you know to refrain from it, I dont think it would be necessary to quench it.
    
    Plus there are several ahadith on just that, to refrain from our desires even when we are “under the influence” to sort of speak.
    
    The problem is, our society tries to impose piety instead to let it run its course and allow us to choose it. And for that to happens it declares a bunch of taboos! And this has not only left a bunch of key issues unresolved just cuz we dismiss them as corner cases, but also deteriorated the very fabric of our society, which was supposed to be “piety” or “purity”.
    
    Not that is absurd!
    
    Comment by safiullahhussaini — May 10, 2009 #
purpose* (second para first line instead of person)

Comment by safiullahhussaini — May 8, 2009 #

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Women are not meant to be seen, heard, smelled, or even touched (either accidently or on purpose) from the moment they reach puberty until they are dead..or so Muslims would have us believe. If that is what Islam has done for women then why would women actively choose it? Which means that something fishy is going on and needs researching. Its so blatantly obvious that just about every negative connotation given to women is found in hadith…because hadith are man made and the Quran is not according to Muslims so that right there should tell us that hadith should be regarded with suspicion and subjectivity unless proven otherwise…trouble is most Muslims dont bother to trying to find the truth…they just follow what there forefathers followed….hmmm where have I heard that before?

nice blog

Comment by coolred38 — May 8, 2009 #

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- I wonder where alot of these practises of submissiveness stem from coolred38, since I see a very strong resemblance to certain things/acts women I know do, that women from other subcultures also do. Sometimes questioning brings much heartache. Ignorance is bliss.
  
  Comment by Sumera — May 9, 2009 #
  
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@coolred-
Yup yup yup – as my religious MIL has said, “it’s a sin to question the hadith”.
I guess women should be invisible, that would solve all problems. :p

Comment by Aynur — May 9, 2009 #

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- Or Aynur too much questioning leads to doubt! I’d rather have the superpower of eating loads and not gaining a single pound compared to being invisble :p
  
  Comment by Sumera — May 9, 2009 #
  
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I’v answered my door many times to muslim men without my hijab.Afterall I’m decently dressed.Muslim men here are not that particular,at least I can say for my male relatives.In fact some Indian muslim women I know do not cover their heads when answering doors.It’s only after they’ve invited him in and then they go scrambling for whatever they can find nearest to them even if it’s a towel!My mother’s like that

@Achelois
I’m shocked that a mother has such mistrust on her daughter’s uncles.Don’t they interact at all? Such overly suspious and critical view on gender relations is bad for health and society.Just glad I’m not born into it.

Comment by Lat — May 9, 2009 #

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- The poor girl is phobic, Lat. She has been wearing hijab since she was 11 and now at 18 she wears a niqaab. Homeschooled and all while her brother went to a French school. It is sick.
  
  Comment by Achelois — May 10, 2009 #
  
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I think its all cultural. I grew up where our male members of the family would mix freely with the women. I still don’t understand why women have to be hidden somewhere!! It just drives me mad. I don’t want/need anything from any other male so why this assumption that if am seen some major disaster is going to happen. There is truly a new *creation* of the new rules that weren’t there during the true period of Islam. If we only did what was truly expected, we wouldn’t be made to look like second class citizens(women). Btw, my living room is not large enough but I still have everyone sit together and have dinner together. It’s so warm and nice to have families sitting together, exchanging stories and laughter, alhamdulilah.

Comment by sf — May 9, 2009 #

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- Mixing freely with men was always the norm for me too sf, and yes I agree family sitting together is beautiful. Drives me potty too. Behind such a strict control of mixing perhaps lies the suspicion that really people have other intentions which arent so noble since whats down below ultimately is in charge. Brain being in pants etc. Shame humans are reduced to simmering pots of sexual desire, waiting to erupt at any given opportunity!
  
  Comment by Sumera — May 9, 2009 #
  
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Sumera, hello- and boy did you hit that nail! I once had a “fit” because my dear, and well intentioned sis in law, kept adjusting my niqab while we were walking about Dar Al Hajjar in Yemen- she brought more attention to us; than just leaving the darn thing alone- I mean it was so low on my face you could not see my eyebrows and so high it came up under my really black sunglasses! I tell you I raised my voice at her and said “Bas” that it echoed for a few floors probably- “No one until now has even noticed our existence why keep fidgeting- walk when you walk, keep you head high and back straight- you are properly covered; what else do you want to hide?!

I apologized later for my outburst- but not her fidgeting, which she has outgrown, thank God! She walks so straight you’d think she was a ballet dancer…And no one has yet to throw a rock at her; or told her to disappear- so she sees merit in just being her good, honest self.

Comment by INAL — May 9, 2009 #

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- Paranoia of a few strands of hair peeking out from under hijab usually has the same response in some women INAL, the NEED to “fix” it and being a right plonk by making a big deal out of nothing.
  
  Comment by Sumera — May 9, 2009 #
  
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- LOOOOOOL @ bas
  
  Comment by mojoui — May 18, 2009 #
  
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I came across your post randomly and loved it! hits the mark. but what’s most disturbing is when the women themselves internalize all this and begin to feel that they MUST become invisible and worse, so must other women around them. sadly, the bulk of the judgement i’ve received over my life for not being invisible enough was from Muslim women themselves. yet when asked specifically how all this is justifed in Islam, keeping in mind examples of Hadhrat Aisha (ra) and Khadia (ra) and numerous others, all that follows is silence. not surprising.

it’s troubling, to say the least.

Comment by Searching. — May 9, 2009 #

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- The desire to be invisible and internalisation of this being the norm and the best way to be is debilitating Searching.. It reinforces the belief that you are a non-entity and that you’re being is of little importance. Of course, if thats what you have always known then perhaps they don;t know any better. I think people forget that being Muslim involves alot more than belonging to that faith. You still have your own personality, character and aspirations – all of which are compatible since without any of these you might as well be a soul-less walking breathing bag of bones and flesh.
  
  Comment by Sumera — May 9, 2009 #
  
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  - Which, unfortunately Sumera, I think there some Muslims who are-”soul less walking bag of bones and flesh”…I saw one example I wrote about and to this day it brings me nightmares because people who are like this hurt others in terrible ways…and because they are soul less they don’t even see it or sometimes particularly care on outcomes of their actions or non-actions, as the case may be- to use a popular term-makes me batty!
    
    Comment by INAL — May 10, 2009 #
I wish like facebook there was a function on the blog which said “Mezba likes this”.

Useful when you like a post and want to make it known to the blogger but have no useful comment to add. Then you end up writing comments like this.

Comment by Mezba — May 12, 2009 #

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PLEASE SUMERA! you over exagerate,I know what you are talking about to an extent,which is one of the reasons why I got divorced!But it really isn’t as bad as YOU are making it out to be.Some times I feel I need to just accept its a man’s world and get on with it…

Comment by Smiley Amal ! — May 14, 2009 #

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- It may not be that bad for me or you, but for those who are relegated to the sidelines and thought of nothing but breeding vessels, cooks and cleaners its a very different reality Amal.
  
  Comment by Sumera — May 14, 2009 #
  
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  - that’s not true it is because women have made it that way and have allowed it to be that way.Women can change the way the men see us ,at the end of the it us who delivers them and it us who brings them up and shapes them.The problem is women don’t realise their own strength in society.
    
    Comment by Smiley Amal ! — May 16, 2009 #
This reminds me of one Eid dinner where women in my former city gathered in the gym attached to the masjid’s school. Men were not allowed in so that women could dance/sing, etc. Unfortunately, there was an uproar when one woman had her husband hold open the door so that she could push the stroller carrying her newborn into the room. Once women saw the open door and *gasp,* a man there (who was obviously staring at the floor), screams ensued and women dove under tables to hide their hair.

There has to be a limit to perception (even that women impose upon themselves), that we’re somehow walking fitnah.

Comment by MayaNoor — May 14, 2009 #

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- Good point about self-imposed perceptions MayaNoor. Sometimes I feel its a self-fulfilling prophecy for a certain segment of the female population that they are a an alluring magnet for all men and therefore have to keep their “beauty” at bay, hence some of the bizarre behaviours they resort to in order to balance the gender equilibrium. I somehow doubt most men believe women to be fitnah 24/7 – and if they do, they may do well to remove their brain from their pants.
  
  Comment by Sumera — May 15, 2009 #
  
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I think the irony is there are more sexual overtones with segregation, men and women end up seeing women as sex objects, with no other purpose. It is little suprise then that if a man and a woman are ‘left alone’ for a few minutes, where no one can see them, they might have only one idea about what they can do with each other.

Silly but there you go.

Comment by sonia — May 21, 2009 #

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Seems like you took your own advice Sumera – Women should neither be seen Nor heard! Ahhhhh the irony of it! LMAO! I just felt i had to say something! Cant let a sitter like this go by

Comment by Abb — June 13, 2009 #

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Sexual undertones implies a desire to pounce on anything that walks, and I agree Safi some exposure to such incidences and circumstances is bound to occur. I’d even go a step further and say its beneficial as you probably learn and begin to recognise what “desire” is like and perhaps how to “control it”. A charged sexual atmosphere (which of course automatically occurs when man + woman are in a room together, even if they are family) all boils down to assumed lack of control over “carnal desires”

Comment by Sumera — May 14, 2009 #

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Shouldn’t that stop? I mean let’s accept it that men make up half this world and yes there are places where a woman has to be cautious but this kind of behaviour (that you explain so well in the post) is ridiculous. I have non-Muslim friends who mix and mingle and have parties and enjoy their lives with their husbands next to them and guess what. They have not committed adultery. This is a phobia that extends all phobias.

Comment by Achelois — May 16, 2009 #

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Yes, I agree – I found that in non-Muslim settings, there is a casual gender segregation that is much more comfortable/normal….

Comment by Aynur — May 18, 2009 #

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I meant to say “I find”

Comment by Aynur — May 18, 2009 #

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